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Freenode observation; the glorious will of the people ☭ 

While the freenode thing really does suck in a lot of ways, I have seen a bright side to it. This situation basically ended up being a great example of why collective ownership is important, and one of the reasons I personally think FOSS might hold a good policy model for society somewhere inside of it.

Basically what we learned is that you can definitely say you own something and wave around the legal papers to prove it... But in the real world, the service is where the people are. Users, the people who provide value to IRC by making FOSS projects and chat servers, are ultimately the ones who owned the means of production... and they were ultimately able to stand their ground.

Freenode-- as an ownable piece of IP --is basically dead now, except for zombie chat rooms indignantly kept alive by Freenode staff. However, Freenode as a community basically rebuilt itself over night on Liberachat, and that's awesome. :flagAnCom:

Freenode observation; the glorious will of the people ☭ 

@animerrillproductions While its been cool to see LiberaChat thrive, I'd attribute a lot of it to the unified action of the staff. A similar takeover is happening right now with Audacity, but there hasnt been any good movement to fork it, as the primary contributors have been bought out, and are supporting the shady shell company with whatever they decide to do. Which, to be fair, is a pretty good deal for the primary contributors.

Freenode observation; the glorious will of the people ☭ 

@jaxter184 that's very fair and true tbh. There's probably a lot of direct parallels that can be drawn between the two then, what makes a FOSS project sustainable and democratic and what doesn't.

You definitely bring up a good point though. I personally tend to be a little too idealistic and willing to point at the first good example, but it's important to recognize and account for failures in the model too.

Freenode observation; the glorious will of the people ☭ 

@animerrillproductions
Yes.
Freenode is just a domain name (or Brand™ if you will.)
The people are the network, and they simply gathered somewhere else.
Decentralisation works.

Freenode observation; the glorious will of the people ☭ 

@animerrillproductions People asking if someone will be "staying with Freenode" are not asking what they think they are.
Moving to Libera Chat means staying with the network.

Freenode observation; the glorious will of the people ☭ 

@owl @animerrillproductions this is good stuff here

what's really been fascinating to see is how easy the migration from one network to another can be

so decentralised things, running on standard protocols don't worry me in the least

what worries me is proprietary stuff like clouds

the amount of time and money that companies sink into AWS for example is mind boggling.
as is AWS, to be honest. it's so intransparent, and companies pay more each year, and it's absolutely not clear if they need / should.

re: Freenode observation; the glorious will of the people ☭ 

@meena @owl I definitely agree. I think in general, there is simply too much proprietary nonsense in the way. Clouds, services like Google Drive, AWS, etc are an encroaching problem for sure. The modern internet's reliance on these megacorp services is unnerving.

However, stuff like that I'm pretty confident FOSS workarounds can be made for the true believers.

What about the fact that no man, woman, enby, or child can log into the internet without a monthly subscription to some local ISP monopoly? We need open hardware, protocols, and connection infrastructure just as much as we need free and open software to run on it.

I'm glad that, unlike the Audacity situation, this has turned into a pretty crucial watershed moment for FOSS. I think user/worker-owned FOSS networks may be one of our best ways (along with good mutual aid and dual power efforts to help people connect) with currently available tools to organize people.

re: Freenode observation; the glorious will of the people ☭ 

@animerrillproductions
In our town there's a public (owned by the municipality) fibre network connecting everything.
But sitting on top of that there's still a handful of private ISPs, taking out profits.
I wonder what it would take to start a non-profit ISP on that infrastructure, and if the municipality would charge less for something like that.
Probably illegal since it would be "unfair" to the profiteers. :| @meena

re: Freenode observation; the glorious will of the people ☭ 

@owl @animerrillproductions @meena It depends on your jurisdiction, but it is indeed illegal in the state of North Carolina for a municipality to provide Internet access.

I've often wondered if a co-op model for Internet access could work, but I'm sure the incumbents would find a way to squash that too.

re: Freenode observation; the glorious will of the people ☭ 

@nivex
Oh, the municpal internet fibre infrastructure is already in place (Sweden) since like 20 years back.
I was more wondering about the specifics of being a non-profit ISP on top of that.
There's a handful of private, for-profit ones that all use the municipal network, and it would be cool to offer an alternative to that on top of the same infra.
@animerrillproductions @meena

re: Freenode observation; the glorious will of the people ☭ 

@nivex

see huxcomm.net for an Iowa fttp coop

in NC efforts like this that tried to expand their service area got hemmed in

@owl @animerrillproductions @meena

re: Freenode observation; the glorious will of the people ☭ 

@owl @animerrillproductions @meena

All it takes are a few people with the necessary skills. :D

f4rn.org.uk/ :D

re: Freenode observation; the glorious will of the people ☭ 

@owl @animerrillproductions @meena

IIRC it was started by a farmer's son who was working in the telecomms field, that couldn't get any broadband to his dad's farm.

He had the skills, and one of his dad's neighbours had the equipment to dig the trenches, so they asked all of the local farms for rights-of-way for the ducting in exchange for getting them better internet connections. :D

re: Freenode observation; the glorious will of the people ☭ 

@animerrillproductions @meena @owl please pardon my ignorance, what exactly is the “Audacity-situation”?

The Audacity Situation 

@flakoot the Audacity situation being when Musegroup took over the Audacity project and immediately tried to ram through a PR that added Google telemetry. This here is a discussion where Tantacrul, YouTuber who suddenly acquired control of Musescore which then acquired control of the Audacity trademarks, is attempting to run damage control over the PR

github.com/audacity/audacity/d

The original PR, although now heavily edited and closed

github.com/audacity/audacity/p

This was also mentioned due to the first comment on my OP here, where someone mentioned that Audacity was a counter example of Freenode where there were so few actual contributors that they were easily bought off by Musescore. That's an example where because ownership wasn't spread out, capital was able to move in to FOSS spaces.

However, thankfully, this attempt was stopped, so the copyleft nature of GPL seems to be working out. There's just no major fork efforts either, that we here know of.

The Audacity Situation 

@meena @flakoot oh, well in that case, nevermind. The Audacity situation got worse somehow lol. Thanks for sharing this directly. :catHi:

What a bunch of scummy fuckbags tbh. Contributor license my ass. :aRevenantAgitated:

@animerrillproductions thank you so much for taking the time to explain! 💜

Freenode observation; the glorious will of the people ☭ 

@animerrillproductions this post took a raw unprocess thought in my mind and gave it form and presented to me in an approachable way that I think I needed
Love it

re: Freenode observation; the glorious will of the people ☭ 

@electrocutie I'm glad I was able to put words to that feeling for you :aBobDance2:

Freenode observation; the glorious will of the people ☭ 

@animerrillproductions It seems Muse Group will be learning that lesson now too.

Freenode observation; the glorious will of the people ☭ 

@be I sure hope somebody sticks it to them too, tbh. It would definitely make the audacity situation have a happy ending too.

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