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fact: we need untraceable decentralised digital currencies

also fact: current shitcoin schemes are not the way to do it

"nobody uses crypto because it's useless" and "we just use our bank apps lol" are such a bad and uninformed takes I can't even

sadly the only way of being virtually totally anonymous today is to use some form of shitcoin, whether that is to buy drugs or setting up a liability free seedbox

and until that is not the case anymore (which I hope is fucking soon, but I'm not gonna hold my breath) stop demonising people occasionally using crypto and point your finger towards cryptocapitalists and schemers

just to be clear though, NFTs are still inexcusable and should be burned on the stake (:

@namtari We need a replacement for physical money that's not putting it all in the hands of banks
@namtari like for a place full of communists fedi seems horribly uninterested in preventing banks from having too much power

@Mae probably because at least half of them love a centralised state a bit to much than we're comfortable with (:

@Mae yup, my bet is on unnecessarily small zubrowka vodka bottles to be the new currency, but I might be slightly optimistic 🤷‍♀️

@namtari i think you might have some misconceptions about exactly how anonymous btc is

@streetlight nope, fully aware, which is why I say virtually

also not necessarily talking about btc

@namtari Eg er ikkje overbevist om at man treng ein digital valuta.

Eg setter pris på at staten kan regulere valutaen og at det er knytta opp mot ein sentralbank.

Men noko som ikkje er utforska nok er kredittforeningar, eller credit unions som det heiter på engelsk.

Også er det jo også brae banker eller mindre dårlege banker for eksempel.

Berre sjekk ting som cultura.no/

@christoffer I won't stop you from trading with oddly shaped stones controlled by the Stone King, but that doesn't mean that most people would want to

credit unions are interesting though

@namtari can I ask your take on how decentralized currency could be done in an acceptable way? Like what's the main thing you like about the concept, and why does current crypto fall short?

I am in general aware of the shortcomings of crypto, but other than the obscurity it provides I've never seen much use in crypto whatsoever. Mostly I'm just curious about your rationale so I can learn more.

@animerrillproductions the main benefit is that it returns the economic power back to the people and not to a centralised source of power.

Current crypto doesn't work because it's too resource intensive and it's also really clumsy from a novice user experience. Not saying traditional banking is easy either though.

I'm really not knowledgeable enough to speak extensively about this, I've mainly listened to the people who do who don't seem like massive asshole techbros or anprims that wanna live in their communal lodge throwing stones at each other who hate the very idea of something so modern as currency.

So yeah, that's my take :p

@namtari That's all very well reasoned and I appreciate your take on it. I certainly agree with both the notion of returning power to the people and that crypto is a leech on the remaining poor health of the planet.

I'm certainly not knowledgeable enough about financing or economics to give an informed take (let alone knowledgeable enough about cyber security to give an informed take, which is at least adjacent to my area of expertise) either.

However as far as speculative ideas go, I once discussed at length with some other techy anarchists and we talked about the idea of something like... A ledger based system that keeps track more of labor and raw value exchange, allows people to post requested services and their particular skills, and which uses the open software model to update the working "contract" between all users. Sort of like fedi, but for the organization of goods and services.

Thoughts?

@animerrillproductions that sounds really cool! I know ethereum has something vaguely similar called smart contracts

found an infographic about it, but not sure how accurate it is

@namtari Ohhh that's very interesting! I will have to look more into it. I'm pretty sure Ethereum is actually using another open source code base that implemented an abstract concept of this, or in any case there were some open source versions at the time I was talking to these anarchists.

To my mind, a goal of mine would be to primarily incentivize (somehow) the giving of food, shelter, healthcare, accessibility, etc. to a volunteer service of some kind and then allow that to be some kind of value build up in the service to be traded for luxury goods or convenience services. In my mind, there would be some attempt to shy away from direct transactions of labor = currency, except in some cases where it's like "I need rent/food money" or "I have a GoFundMe for transition surgery" where money is just the resources for that person to get a service from the capitalist system.

But I am extremely idealistic in that regard, so that probably isn't the best option either.

@namtari Note: A lot of my concepts probably come from the concerns and suggestions raised in "The Conquest of Bread" by Kropotkin, and are discussed in detail there (i.e. the concern of creating "labor tokens" but also allowing for fully-automatic luxury space communism etc etc). If you have another theoretical groundwork which you think might benefit the evolution of my worldview, I would be open to hearing it.

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